[alicebot-developer] Re: Program verification standards
David Sienkiewicz
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org
Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:49:45 -0500
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Thanks, Kino. I'll look into it.
As a side note, that may not be on topic for this list. I found what =
seems to be a wonderful opportunity for AIML developers. There's this =
growing group of enthusiasts on the web that are doing an interesting =
job recreating the B9 robot from the original "Lost In Space" TV =
program. You know the one, "Danger! Danger! Will Robinson." Although =
they've seemed to have built many full-size, high-detailed, scale robot =
models, their simulations of conversations just seem to be limited to =
just playing back audio recordings captured from the TV show and acting =
along with them. I was struck by this being a wonderful opportunity to =
apply this technology and make 1960's science fiction a reality. If =
memory serves, one link is at: =
www.B9robotbuilders.com<http://www.b9robotbuilders.com/>.
Thanks everybody for the info.=20
Dave S.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: =
alicebot-developer-request@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer-re=
quest@list.alicebot.org>=20
To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 3:00 PM
Subject: alicebot-developer digest, Vol 1 #432 - 4 msgs
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of alicebot-developer digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Program verification standards? (Josip Almasi)
2. Re: Program verification standards? (David Sienkiewicz)
3. Re: Re: Program verification standards? (Josip Almasi)
4. RE: Program verification standards? (Kino Coursey)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:49:20 +0100
From: Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org<mailto:joe@vrspace.org>>
To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
Subject: Re: [alicebot-developer] Program verification standards?
Reply-To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
David Sienkiewicz wrote:
> Could someone tell me if there is a recognized, standard set, or=20
> perhaps, multiple sets of AIML, using some sort of test dialog that =
can=20
> be used to verify an ALICE program is functioning correctly?
...
Well, I guess you could use dr. Wallace's AAA as 'standard'. Though=20
better word would probably be 'reference'.
As for testing - just let em speak to each other;)
BTW your familly name has nothing to do with that russian writer, =
right?;)
Regards...
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "David Sienkiewicz" =
<dave_sienkiewicz@msn.com<mailto:dave_sienkiewicz@msn.com>>
To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:37:22 -0500
Subject: [alicebot-developer] Re: Program verification standards?
Reply-To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
Josip: what I was hoping for was a concise set of points with which I =
could=20
benchmark the programs various functions. I thought it might take too =
long=20
to just allow a random conversation although I could see some merit in =
doing=20
so. I also didn't want to step through each and every template and =
pattern=20
in the triple-A set if I didn't have to.
What would be of interest is some sort of a modified ALICE program =
that has=20
the sole purpose of evaluating and rating other ALICE programs, =
perhaps not=20
only for content but maybe response time as well.
To answer your question, not Russian (although close), Polish.=20
...unconfirmed distant relation. The folks that knew for sure died =
before=20
passing on the information in a way that made sense. We do have one=20
tantalizing first edition book in the family.
Thanks for your feedback.
Dave S.
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:23:59 +0100
From: Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org<mailto:joe@vrspace.org>>
To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
Subject: Re: [alicebot-developer] Re: Program verification standards?
Reply-To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
David Sienkiewicz wrote:
>=20
> Josip: what I was hoping for was a concise set of points with which =
I=20
> could benchmark the programs various functions. I thought it might =
take=20
> too long to just allow a random conversation although I could see =
some=20
> merit in doing so. I also didn't want to step through each and every =
> template and pattern in the triple-A set if I didn't have to.
Yep, I guessed that much - you're looking for some kind of 'unit =
tests',=20
right?
Well, tough luck... I don't even understand how such a thing could be=20
done with AIML.
Eventually some kind of brute force, i.e. random strings or random =
word=20
combinations based on some grammar...
> What would be of interest is some sort of a modified ALICE program =
that=20
> has the sole purpose of evaluating and rating other ALICE programs,=20
> perhaps not only for content but maybe response time as well.
Again, I don't see how you can evaluate the content, in general.
How can you evaluate english, russian, turkish bots with one program?
But this _is_ an interesting idea... if the Foundation had such a=20
'conformance test', it would make interpreter implementation much =
easier.
> To answer your question, not Russian (although close), Polish.=20
> ...unconfirmed distant relation. The folks that knew for sure died=20
> before passing on the information in a way that made sense. We do =
have=20
> one tantalizing first edition book in the family.
Well then, FYI: I've met writer's direct descedant. The familly ran =
away=20
from russians to belgrade.
Regards...
--__--__--
Message: 4
From: "Kino Coursey" =
<kino@pleiadescom.com<mailto:kino@pleiadescom.com>>
To: =
<alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alic=
ebot.org>>
Subject: RE: [alicebot-developer] Program verification standards?
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:56:32 -0600
Reply-To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
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Like "dev-testcases.aiml" in
=
http://www.virtualitas.net/perl/aiml/standard-aiml-current.zip<http://www=
virtualitas.net/perl/aiml/standard-aiml-current.zip>
???
=
http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2002-June/004782.html=
<http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2002-June/004782.htm=
l>
=
http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-developer/2004-March/001722.h=
tml<http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-developer/2004-March/0017=
22.html>
=
http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2003-April/007843.htm=
l<http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2003-April/007843.h=
tml>
It has tests to make sure that an interperter is reading and acting on =
AIML
lanugage properly. Wither or not a given AIML bot set will have a good
conversation is another question.
Hope that helps,
Kino
-----Original Message-----
From: =
alicebot-developer-admin@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer-admi=
n@list.alicebot.org>
[mailto:alicebot-developer-admin@list.alicebot.org]On Behalf Of David
Sienkiewicz
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:58 AM
To: =
alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org<mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alice=
bot.org>
Subject: [alicebot-developer] Program verification standards?
Could someone tell me if there is a recognized, standard set, or =
perhaps,
multiple sets of AIML, using some sort of test dialog that can be used =
to
verify an ALICE program is functioning correctly?
Being that I've started almost from scratch coding in the REXX =
language and
using a heirarchical file system, I want to be certain that my results =
are
able to meet acceptable standards.
So, given a specific set of AIML, establishing certain program =
constants,
and entering specific dialogs, I would like to analyze the information
returned, and determine if the program is able to meet certain =
standards of
operation, such as being able to say, for example, that the "program =
is
equivalent to Program D operation".
TIA.
Dave S.
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<DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, Kino. I'll look into it.</DIV>
<DIV>As a side note, that may not be on topic for this list. I found =
what seems=20
to be a wonderful opportunity for AIML developers. There's this growing =
group of=20
enthusiasts on the web that are doing an interesting job recreating the =
B9 robot=20
from the original "Lost In Space" TV program. You know the one, "Danger! =
Danger!=20
Will Robinson." Although they've seemed to have built many full-size,=20
high-detailed, scale robot models, their simulations of conversations =
just seem=20
to be limited to just playing back audio recordings captured from the TV =
show=20
and acting along with them. I was struck by this being a wonderful =
opportunity=20
to apply this technology and make 1960's science fiction a reality. If =
memory=20
serves, one link is at: <A =
title=3Dhttp://www.b9robotbuilders.com/=20
href=3D"http://www.B9robotbuilders.com">www.B9robotbuilders.com</A>.</DIV=
>
<DIV>Thanks everybody for the info. </DIV>
<DIV>Dave S.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer-request@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer-request@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-dev=
eloper-request@list.alicebot.org</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 03, =
2004 3:00=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> alicebot-developer =
digest, Vol 1=20
#432 - 4 msgs</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Send alicebot-developer mailing list submissions =
to<BR><A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR>To=20
subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR><A=20
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eloper-request@list.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR>You=20
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oper-admin@list.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR>When=20
replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than =
"Re:=20
Contents of alicebot-developer digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's=20
Topics:<BR><BR> 1. Re: Program verification standards? =
(Josip=20
Almasi)<BR> 2. Re: Program verification standards? (David=20
Sienkiewicz)<BR> 3. Re: Re: Program verification =
standards? (Josip=20
Almasi)<BR> 4. RE: Program verification standards? (Kino=20
Coursey)<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 =
20:49:20 +0100<BR>From: Josip Almasi <<A =
title=3Dmailto:joe@vrspace.org=20
href=3D"mailto:joe@vrspace.org">joe@vrspace.org</A>><BR>To: <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR>Subject:=20
Re: [alicebot-developer] Program verification standards?<BR>Reply-To: =
<A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR>David=20
Sienkiewicz wrote:<BR><BR>> Could someone tell me if there is a =
recognized,=20
standard set, or <BR>> perhaps, multiple sets of AIML, using some =
sort of=20
test dialog that can <BR>> be used to verify an ALICE program is=20
functioning correctly?<BR>...<BR><BR>Well, I guess you could use dr. =
Wallace's=20
AAA as 'standard'. Though <BR>better word would probably be =
'reference'.<BR>As=20
for testing - just let em speak to each other;)<BR><BR>BTW your =
familly name=20
has nothing to do with that russian writer,=20
right?;)<BR><BR>Regards...<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: =
2<BR>From:=20
"David Sienkiewicz" <<A title=3Dmailto:dave_sienkiewicz@msn.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dave_sienkiewicz@msn.com">dave_sienkiewicz@msn.com</A>>=
<BR>To:=20
<A title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR>Date:=20
Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:37:22 -0500<BR>Subject: [alicebot-developer] Re: =
Program=20
verification standards?<BR>Reply-To: <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR><BR>Josip:=20
what I was hoping for was a concise set of points with which I could=20
<BR>benchmark the programs various functions. I thought it might take =
too long=20
<BR>to just allow a random conversation although I could see some =
merit in=20
doing <BR>so. I also didn't want to step through each and every =
template and=20
pattern <BR>in the triple-A set if I didn't have to.<BR>What would be =
of=20
interest is some sort of a modified ALICE program that has <BR>the =
sole=20
purpose of evaluating and rating other ALICE programs, perhaps not =
<BR>only=20
for content but maybe response time as well.<BR>To answer your =
question, not=20
Russian (although close), Polish. <BR>...unconfirmed distant relation. =
The=20
folks that knew for sure died before <BR>passing on the information in =
a way=20
that made sense. We do have one <BR>tantalizing first edition book in =
the=20
family.<BR>Thanks for your feedback.<BR>Dave=20
S.<BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Tue, 02 Nov =
2004=20
22:23:59 +0100<BR>From: Josip Almasi <<A =
title=3Dmailto:joe@vrspace.org=20
href=3D"mailto:joe@vrspace.org">joe@vrspace.org</A>><BR>To: <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR>Subject:=20
Re: [alicebot-developer] Re: Program verification =
standards?<BR>Reply-To: <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR>David=20
Sienkiewicz wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Josip: what I was hoping for was a =
concise=20
set of points with which I <BR>> could benchmark the programs =
various=20
functions. I thought it might take <BR>> too long to just allow a =
random=20
conversation although I could see some <BR>> merit in doing so. I =
also=20
didn't want to step through each and every <BR>> template and =
pattern in=20
the triple-A set if I didn't have to.<BR><BR>Yep, I guessed that much =
- you're=20
looking for some kind of 'unit tests', <BR>right?<BR>Well, tough =
luck... I=20
don't even understand how such a thing could be <BR>done with=20
AIML.<BR>Eventually some kind of brute force, i.e. random strings or =
random=20
word <BR>combinations based on some grammar...<BR><BR>> What would =
be of=20
interest is some sort of a modified ALICE program that <BR>> has =
the sole=20
purpose of evaluating and rating other ALICE programs, <BR>> =
perhaps not=20
only for content but maybe response time as well.<BR><BR>Again, I =
don't see=20
how you can evaluate the content, in general.<BR>How can you evaluate =
english,=20
russian, turkish bots with one program?<BR>But this _is_ an =
interesting=20
idea... if the Foundation had such a <BR>'conformance test', it would =
make=20
interpreter implementation much easier.<BR><BR>> To answer your =
question,=20
not Russian (although close), Polish. <BR>> ...unconfirmed distant=20
relation. The folks that knew for sure died <BR>> before passing on =
the=20
information in a way that made sense. We do have <BR>> one =
tantalizing=20
first edition book in the family.<BR><BR>Well then, FYI: I've met =
writer's=20
direct descedant. The familly ran away <BR>from russians to=20
belgrade.<BR><BR>Regards...<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: =
4<BR>From:=20
"Kino Coursey" <<A title=3Dmailto:kino@pleiadescom.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:kino@pleiadescom.com">kino@pleiadescom.com</A>><BR>To: =
<<A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A>><BR>Subject:=20
RE: [alicebot-developer] Program verification standards?<BR>Date: Tue, =
2 Nov=20
2004 17:56:32 -0600<BR>Reply-To: <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR><BR>This=20
is a multi-part message in MIME=20
=
format.<BR><BR>------=3D_NextPart_000_0011_01C4C105.4A951CE0<BR>Content-T=
ype:=20
text/plain;<BR>charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
7bit<BR><BR>Like "dev-testcases.aiml" in<BR><A=20
title=3Dhttp://www.virtualitas.net/perl/aiml/standard-aiml-current.zip =
=
href=3D"http://www.virtualitas.net/perl/aiml/standard-aiml-current.zip">h=
ttp://www.virtualitas.net/perl/aiml/standard-aiml-current.zip</A><BR>???<=
BR><BR><A=20
=
title=3Dhttp://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2002-June/004=
782.html=20
=
href=3D"http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2002-June/004=
782.html">http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2002-June/0=
04782.html</A><BR><A=20
=
title=3Dhttp://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-developer/2004-March/=
001722.html=20
=
href=3D"http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-developer/2004-March/=
001722.html">http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-developer/2004-M=
arch/001722.html</A><BR><A=20
=
title=3Dhttp://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2003-April/00=
7843.html=20
=
href=3D"http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2003-April/00=
7843.html">http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-general/2003-April=
/007843.html</A><BR><BR>It=20
has tests to make sure that an interperter is reading and acting on=20
AIML<BR>lanugage properly. Wither or not a given AIML bot set will =
have a=20
good<BR>conversation is another question.<BR><BR>Hope that=20
helps,<BR>Kino<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A=20
title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer-admin@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer-admin@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-devel=
oper-admin@list.alicebot.org</A><BR>[mailto:alicebot-developer-admin@list=
alicebot.org]On=20
Behalf Of David<BR>Sienkiewicz<BR>Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 =
11:58=20
AM<BR>To: <A title=3Dmailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-developer@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-developer@l=
ist.alicebot.org</A><BR>Subject:=20
[alicebot-developer] Program verification standards?<BR><BR><BR>Could =
someone=20
tell me if there is a recognized, standard set, or =
perhaps,<BR>multiple sets=20
of AIML, using some sort of test dialog that can be used to<BR>verify =
an ALICE=20
program is functioning correctly?<BR><BR>Being that I've started =
almost from=20
scratch coding in the REXX language and<BR>using a heirarchical file =
system, I=20
want to be certain that my results are<BR>able to meet acceptable=20
standards.<BR><BR>So, given a specific set of AIML, establishing =
certain=20
program constants,<BR>and entering specific dialogs, I would like to =
analyze=20
the information<BR>returned, and determine if the program is able to =
meet=20
certain standards of<BR>operation, such as being able to say, for =
example,=20
that the "program is<BR>equivalent to Program D=20
operation".<BR><BR>TIA.<BR><BR>Dave=20
=
S.<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>alicebot=
-developer=20
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