[alicebot-archcomm] A test aiml fetch service for Jon

[Dr. Rich Wallace]

Thanks Kino, I was looking for the right metaphor and you may have found it.

I am of two minds about this issue.  One of the reasons for the success of
Linux has to be Linus Torvald's personality style which allows him to
admit almost any change, no matter how small, into the macro kernel loop. 
 There is of course a technical difference between an operating system and
an A. I. (or is there?) but basically anyone is free to build a new device
driver for Linux and get it absorbed into the whole.  The process we've
built for AIML is far more restrictive, partly in an effort to keep the
language minimal, partly because there is more than one implementation and
more than one principal developer involved.   Sometimes I wish I could get
a personality transplant into whatever Linus Toravlds is.

It's fair to say that we've all been through a lot, emotionally and
financially, and there is some truth to history repeating itself.  People
get excited about AIML and get new ideas for improving the language. 
Maybe if the rest of us adopted those ideas then AIML would take off
faster and all our wallets would grow fatter.  Maybe we are blind to our
own blindness.

We've certainly experienced people getting fed up with the slow process of
the Arch Comm and the glacial pace of AIML adoption.  Remember "Internet
time?"  Remmeber Napster?   What about ActiveBuddy, to hit even closer to
home?  These things have all come and gone since we began.  People get fed
up and leave.  It would be nice if those people could be more patient,
since some of them made some great contributions along the way.  But what
can you do?  Rent has to be paid.  Bills are due.   We should try to
something to make AIML more popular...maybe even if it means bending the
Rules of Order a little to make things happen.  And that is exactly where
I am divided...

> Perhaps [alicebot-developer] is a more appropriate venue for the
> experimentation and announcements. There does need to be a way to
> collaborate on exploratory development. If that development proves
> useful, a there has to be a way to standardize what is developed into
> the official specification.
>
>  While convenient to develop a spec from the top down, from idea to
> fully
> formed standard, sometimes time throws a curve ball. New technologies
> and needs arise, and not to address them can cause the tool not find the
> same audience. One problem faced with the adoption of AI in the past has
> been that the tools did not integrate as well with the user's
> environment as more conventional solutions. So the users adapted the
> conventional solutions, and merged in the AI methods and ideas, even
> though the AI tools would have been better IF they had the interface
> functionality.
>
> The tag and service developers are trying to maintain and extend the
> relevancy of AIML-based systems. They have not as of yet put their mods
> up for a vote or as a standard. While they are members of archcomm, and
> I suspect they intend to submit the final form of their ideas for debate
> as some standard, they haven't done so yet. I would contend that their
> "a tag like X would be nice and work like Y" discussions ran quickly
> into working code, but they never bothered to switch over to
> [alicebot-developer] mode. So a technical development discussion looks
> like a de facto fait accompli coup of the standards process in the heart
> of the committee.
>
> In congressional terms, it would be as if enthuastic law makers did
> their negotiations on the floors, instead of behind the scenes and
> bringing their final suggestion to the floor for a vote. If they did
> that, then they would probably cause the same reaction.
>
> In short they should be given a traffic warning, with no jail time. ;-)
>
> Enjoy,
> Kino
>
> Elect a real Bot: AliceBot for California governor 2003!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alicebot-archcomm-admin@list.alicebot.org
> [mailto:alicebot-archcomm-admin@list.alicebot.org]On Behalf Of Dr. Rich
> Wallace
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:34 AM
> To: alicebot-archcomm@list.alicebot.org
> Subject: Re: [alicebot-archcomm] A test aiml fetch service for Jon
>
>
> Some ArchComm members might say that this dicussion is moving way too
> far, way too fast.
>
> First of all, we've gone an implemented a new AIML tag in one AIML
> interpreter, and also gone and implemented some services somwhere that
> are compatible with that tag.  We've also shown some sample AIML tag
> that will work with that code and with that interpreter.
>
> Conservative Arch Comm members would say is Not the way the Arch Comm
> works.
>
> There are at least half a dozen other developers out there with their
> own AIML interpreters who have had no comment on these new tags and
> services, no mattter what their merits, and no we have no idea whether
> they will ever be implemented, no matter how cool they are.
>
> This is the the dreaded "Embrace and Extend" that kills any standard.
>
> I am living through a really tough experience myself right now trying to
> port some AIML files from Pandorabots to Program E and finding out that
> even the existing AIML standard has some big compatibility problems
> which have not yet been hashed out.  For example, they each process
> "that" differenlty.  Also, has anyone looked at the "Annabot" project
> lately? They have forked AIML and replaced the <that> tag with <this>.
>
> It is worth pointing out that the volunteer who was editing the spec
> document has left our community and no one has stepped forward to take
> over that role.  We have already found many errors and inconsistencies.
> Some have also said that we need some kind of validation scheme to
> validate the existing AIML software so that botmasters can trust that
> their AIML files are portable between implementations.
>
> A long time ago we discussed creating a "Good Housekeeping Seal of
> Approval" for prgrams that implement the AIML 1.0x standard.   The idea
> was the developers could submit their code to the Foundation and then
> get the seal of approval so that botmasters could trust their
> implementation as "official" AIML.
>
> http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo/alicebot-archcomm
>
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-- 
Dr. Rich
W A L L A C E
ALICE A.I. Foundation
drwallace@www.alicebot.org
"Dean of cheezo-hobby system hackers."--Salon