[alicebot-aiethics] harassment

[Tamara Thompson]

It's so much easier to respond to something Eric wrote.  He seems to have his head together.

This weird thing keeps going through my head, these days, after hearing all of this 'let's wage war' stuff.   It's the verse from
a Jackson Brown song--
" I want to know who the men in the shadows are, I want to hear somebody asking them why, they can be counted on to tell us who
are enemies are but they're never the ones to fight or to die".  Okay, it leftist sentimentalism.  But it occurs to even me.

Are you guys ready to go die for this?  Are you ready to take a lot of 18-26 year olds into battle and watch them die for an as
yet not determined mission?  (We've got so much to do at home, to shore up our security processes, to make our lives safe
here...I'm wondering this)

Amazingly tonight, 4 days after the attack on New York and the Pentagon, broadcast tv has gone back completely to advertising and
hollywood as usual.  Was this all just a hoax on us?  A joke?  It's over, as far as American advertisers and tv are concerned,
the emergency is over.  I'm again stunned.   So much so fast, and now back to business, it's just like it never happened.
Hollywood.

It's an extremely good point that we should learn more about our islamic friends and foes, how they think, what they believe, the
language, etc.  As an American I now think it's important as hell to know who hates us and why, and how we can bridge that gap.
How do we make this world better?

That's what my peaceful european friends  have taught me: how do we make this better?

confused now about whether I should care or not care about this past week,
peace,
Tamara


eric thompson wrote:

> Just as a point here, Islam itself is not the
> philosophy originating these horrors. I have many
> Islamic friends who consider this view of the world a
> perversion. The factions are incorrectly identified as
> "fundamentalists", when in fact they stray violently
> from the fundamental beliefs of the religion.
>
> Eric
>
> --- Bill Easley <billeasley@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Thanks fo the response, Noel, I really do want to
> > focus on what the problem
> > is and the solution. I am studying as much as I can
> > about this and I want to
> > be accurate and as compassionate as possible- There
> > are people really acting
> > out hate towards people who had nothing to do with
> > this- and I dont want to
> > support that. No sane person would! Let me just give
> > another example of why
> > I am opposed to the practice of extream islam. In
> > Afganistan, where Bin
> > Ladden is probably hiding now- the radical islamic
> > group basically running
> > that country (that he is tied to) oppresses woman to
> > extreams and have
> > inposed a total ban the internet. Our technologies,
> > such as chat bots, and
> > all AI are completely prohibited. Intellectual
> > freedom is not known. They
> > believe by isolating themselves from the rest of the
> > world and waging a holy
> > war on America (which is why this attack probably
> > happened) they will
> > eventually create a "pure society"- their goal is to
> > impose this on the
> > world and assimilate it into thier vision. They have
> > publically waged this
> > war, it is no secret. This is the enemy- and from
> > everything I have studied,
> > there is no negotiating or reasoning with these
> > people. They will lie, hate,
> > kill, put thier children in harms way, and they
> > sincerlly believe it is for
> > god's sake and a pass for them to heaven. I am not
> > confused about this- it
> > is as real as can be. This islamic fanatical
> > thinking is spreading to all
> > parts of the world, and I believe unless we identify
> > islam for what it is-we
> > will continue to see more episodes of the horror
> > seen Tuesday.
> > The enemy is radical and fundimental islam.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Noel Bush" <noel@alicebot.org>
> > To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 2:16 PM
> > Subject: RE: [alicebot-aiethics] harassment
> >
> >
> > > I agree with Chris's statement and thank him for
> > posting it.  Some of us
> > > may be grappling to find a position in a situation
> > like this -- I know I
> > > am, and I feel like a lot of the things I'm saying
> > are foolish, better
> > > thought through more than thought out loud -- but
> > one thing I can't
> > > fathom is the sort of bigotry expressed in Bill's
> > statement.
> > >
> > > Sorry, Bill, but I think you've just given another
> > voice to the
> > > seething, ill-informed hatred that lies in the
> > hearts of so many people
> > > in the US just as it does elsewhere.  I want to
> > see the people and
> > > states who did this punished as well.  But I am
> > greatly disheartened to
> > > read statements like yours, because it makes me
> > feel that no sort of
> > > "justice" has a chance if there are enough folks
> > believing and acting
> > > upon the sorts of things you've expressed.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org
> > > >
> > [mailto:alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org]
> > On Behalf
> > > > Of Christopher Fahey [askROM]
> > > > Sent: Saturday 15 September 2001 0:15
> > > > To: alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [alicebot-aiethics] harassment
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill Easley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Do we go after people and bash them because
> > > > > of thier ethnicity or religion-no. Do we
> > realize Islam is a
> > > > > dangerous religion and to practice it devoutly
> > leads it's
> > > > > followers to isolationism, hatered and demands
> > of it's
> > > > > follwers to practice acts that could lead to
> > terrorism-yes.
> > > >
> > > > Please, Bill. Your lip-service to the idea of
> > 'tolerance' is
> > > > undermined by your ugly, intolerant, prejudiced,
> > and
> > > > uninformed characterizations of Islam. Judging
> > all of Islam
> > > > based on what you know about Islamic
> > fundamentalism is like
> > > > judging all of the diverse world of Christianity
> > based on
> > > > Christian fundamentalism. It's blatantly
> > prejudiced and
> > > > somewhat disgusting.
> > > >
> > > > Think about what 'fundamentalism' is from a
> > Christian
> > > > perspective, and then ask yourself if Islamic
> > fundamentalists
> > > > really should be held up as a standard of what
> > all of Islam
> > > > is. Christian fundamentalists come in many
> > varieties, but
> > > > almost all of them have at least some beliefs
> > that are about
> > > > as far out of the mainstream (or even as 'sick')
> > as what you
> > > > ascribe to Islamic fundamentalists. Some think
> > that women
> > > > should always cover their heads, should be
> > deprived of
> > > > education, and are obliged to bear their
> > husbands dozens of
> > > > children. Some believe in polygamy. Some think
> > that all
> > > > non-Christians must be punished/converted and
> > that we are in
> > > > a global religious war against the infidels
> > (and, in fact,
> > > > you seem to come close to this belief). Some
> > think that the
> > > > earth is only 5,000 years old and that most
> > scientists are
> > > > demons. Here in the US, many advocate the
> > destruction of the
> > > > US government, as we so sadly found out in
> > Oklahoma City.
> > > > Many Christian-based cults take the form of
> > armed militias.
> > > > Anti-Semitism permeates Christian fundamentalism
> > just like it
> > > > permeates Islamic fundamentalism.
> > > >
> > > > This is not to say that the analogy is totally
> > appropriate:
> > > > Why do Islamic fundamentalists seem to have more
> > power and
> > > > influence in the Islamic world than Christian
> > fundamentalists
> > > > have in the US (although this is arguable)?
> > > >
> > > > One thing that differentiates the two is that
> > Moslems around
> > > > the world live, for the most part, in
> > impoverished and
> > > > oppressive circumstances - and their oppressors
> > are usually
> > > > supported by western governments like the US.
> > Osama bin Laden
> > > > has made no secret of his hatred for Saddam
> > Hussein and of
> > > > King Fahd - these oppressive regimes, to him,
> > are "western
> > > > creations" and in fact these are his real
> > targets. The
> > > > Islamic fundamentalist movement is, in many
> > ways, a movement
> > > > to restore faith, dignity, and honor to the
> > corrupt
> > > > governments of the Moslem world. Sounds a lot
> > like GW Bush's
> > > > campaign speeches (I'm not saying Bush is like a
> > terrorist at
> > > > all, I'm just saying that the desire to bring
> > justice to your
> > > > government is pretty normal). In most respects
> > they are
> > > > acting based on politics, not religion.
> > > >
> > > > Christian fundamentalists, on the other hand,
> > tend to live in
> > > > free countries with some degree of economic
> > prosperity. Their
> > > > goals are also to restore dignity and honor to
> > our societies
> > > > and governments. But (fortunately for us)
> > western governments
> > > > already are pretty free of corruption and
> > oppression
> > > > (especially in comparison to the governments of
> > the Middle
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
> =====
> THIS IS THE GUMBY! I AM WRITING AND/OR RESPONDING TO YOU! SHOULD YOU NOT RESPOND TO ME I WILL BE QUITE UPSET! GUMBY LOVES YOU.
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