[alicebot-aiethics] harassment

[Bill Easley]

Thanks fo the response, Noel, I really do want to focus on what the problem
is and the solution. I am studying as much as I can about this and I want to
be accurate and as compassionate as possible- There are people really acting
out hate towards people who had nothing to do with this- and I dont want to
support that. No sane person would! Let me just give another example of why
I am opposed to the practice of extream islam. In Afganistan, where Bin
Ladden is probably hiding now- the radical islamic group basically running
that country (that he is tied to) oppresses woman to extreams and have
inposed a total ban the internet. Our technologies, such as chat bots, and
all AI are completely prohibited. Intellectual freedom is not known. They
believe by isolating themselves from the rest of the world and waging a holy
war on America (which is why this attack probably happened) they will
eventually create a "pure society"- their goal is to impose this on the
world and assimilate it into thier vision. They have publically waged this
war, it is no secret. This is the enemy- and from everything I have studied,
there is no negotiating or reasoning with these people. They will lie, hate,
kill, put thier children in harms way, and they sincerlly believe it is for
god's sake and a pass for them to heaven. I am not confused about this- it
is as real as can be. This islamic fanatical thinking is spreading to all
parts of the world, and I believe unless we identify islam for what it is-we
will continue to see more episodes of the horror seen Tuesday.
The enemy is radical and fundimental islam.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Bush" <noel@alicebot.org>
To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: [alicebot-aiethics] harassment


> I agree with Chris's statement and thank him for posting it.  Some of us
> may be grappling to find a position in a situation like this -- I know I
> am, and I feel like a lot of the things I'm saying are foolish, better
> thought through more than thought out loud -- but one thing I can't
> fathom is the sort of bigotry expressed in Bill's statement.
>
> Sorry, Bill, but I think you've just given another voice to the
> seething, ill-informed hatred that lies in the hearts of so many people
> in the US just as it does elsewhere.  I want to see the people and
> states who did this punished as well.  But I am greatly disheartened to
> read statements like yours, because it makes me feel that no sort of
> "justice" has a chance if there are enough folks believing and acting
> upon the sorts of things you've expressed.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org
> > [mailto:alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org] On Behalf
> > Of Christopher Fahey [askROM]
> > Sent: Saturday 15 September 2001 0:15
> > To: alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
> > Subject: RE: [alicebot-aiethics] harassment
> >
> >
> > Bill Easley wrote:
> >
> > > Do we go after people and bash them because
> > > of thier ethnicity or religion-no. Do we realize Islam is a
> > > dangerous religion and to practice it devoutly leads it's
> > > followers to isolationism, hatered and demands of it's
> > > follwers to practice acts that could lead to terrorism-yes.
> >
> > Please, Bill. Your lip-service to the idea of 'tolerance' is
> > undermined by your ugly, intolerant, prejudiced, and
> > uninformed characterizations of Islam. Judging all of Islam
> > based on what you know about Islamic fundamentalism is like
> > judging all of the diverse world of Christianity based on
> > Christian fundamentalism. It's blatantly prejudiced and
> > somewhat disgusting.
> >
> > Think about what 'fundamentalism' is from a Christian
> > perspective, and then ask yourself if Islamic fundamentalists
> > really should be held up as a standard of what all of Islam
> > is. Christian fundamentalists come in many varieties, but
> > almost all of them have at least some beliefs that are about
> > as far out of the mainstream (or even as 'sick') as what you
> > ascribe to Islamic fundamentalists. Some think that women
> > should always cover their heads, should be deprived of
> > education, and are obliged to bear their husbands dozens of
> > children. Some believe in polygamy. Some think that all
> > non-Christians must be punished/converted and that we are in
> > a global religious war against the infidels (and, in fact,
> > you seem to come close to this belief). Some think that the
> > earth is only 5,000 years old and that most scientists are
> > demons. Here in the US, many advocate the destruction of the
> > US government, as we so sadly found out in Oklahoma City.
> > Many Christian-based cults take the form of armed militias.
> > Anti-Semitism permeates Christian fundamentalism just like it
> > permeates Islamic fundamentalism.
> >
> > This is not to say that the analogy is totally appropriate:
> > Why do Islamic fundamentalists seem to have more power and
> > influence in the Islamic world than Christian fundamentalists
> > have in the US (although this is arguable)?
> >
> > One thing that differentiates the two is that Moslems around
> > the world live, for the most part, in impoverished and
> > oppressive circumstances - and their oppressors are usually
> > supported by western governments like the US. Osama bin Laden
> > has made no secret of his hatred for Saddam Hussein and of
> > King Fahd - these oppressive regimes, to him, are "western
> > creations" and in fact these are his real targets. The
> > Islamic fundamentalist movement is, in many ways, a movement
> > to restore faith, dignity, and honor to the corrupt
> > governments of the Moslem world. Sounds a lot like GW Bush's
> > campaign speeches (I'm not saying Bush is like a terrorist at
> > all, I'm just saying that the desire to bring justice to your
> > government is pretty normal). In most respects they are
> > acting based on politics, not religion.
> >
> > Christian fundamentalists, on the other hand, tend to live in
> > free countries with some degree of economic prosperity. Their
> > goals are also to restore dignity and honor to our societies
> > and governments. But (fortunately for us) western governments
> > already are pretty free of corruption and oppression
> > (especially in comparison to the governments of the Middle
> > East). So they rarely resort to such acts of terror as we see
> > coming from the Middle East.
> >
> > One group attacks the World Trade Center because they are
> > fighting (they
> > believe) to end the oppression of millions of their people.
> > Another group kills doctors on their way to clinics to end
> > (they believe) abortion. People with strong beleifs often
> > turn to violence regardless of their faith.
> >
> > We live in a world where Islam, a sleeping giant of potential
> > power (and fully 1/4 of the world's population), lives in a
> > kind of second-class world citizenship, and they desperately
> > want to end that situation. Some of them are willing to turn
> > to violence - and your us-versus-them attitude does nothing
> > to help end that violence. The fact that the murderers in
> > question today are Moslem is no excuse for your
> > embarrassingly hateful anti-Islamic rhetoric. I only hope
> > your ill-considered opinions are in the minority - if not,
> > and if Americans really do think that 1/4 of the people in
> > the world have an evil belief system, then I guess we are in
> > for a stupid war that could last a hundred years. Intolerant
> > statements like the ones you've made make me ashamed to be an
> > American and very much afraid for the future of love and
> > peace on Earth.
> >
> > -Cf
> >
> > PS: Sorry for the off-topic post, but as long as anyone posts
> > intolerant statements like this, I am morally obliged to
> > respond to show that we're not all so insensitive and prejudiced.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
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