[alicebot-aiethics] harassment

[Noel Bush]

I agree with Chris's statement and thank him for posting it.  Some of us
may be grappling to find a position in a situation like this -- I know I
am, and I feel like a lot of the things I'm saying are foolish, better
thought through more than thought out loud -- but one thing I can't
fathom is the sort of bigotry expressed in Bill's statement.

Sorry, Bill, but I think you've just given another voice to the
seething, ill-informed hatred that lies in the hearts of so many people
in the US just as it does elsewhere.  I want to see the people and
states who did this punished as well.  But I am greatly disheartened to
read statements like yours, because it makes me feel that no sort of
"justice" has a chance if there are enough folks believing and acting
upon the sorts of things you've expressed.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org 
> [mailto:alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org] On Behalf 
> Of Christopher Fahey [askROM]
> Sent: Saturday 15 September 2001 0:15
> To: alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
> Subject: RE: [alicebot-aiethics] harassment
> 
> 
> Bill Easley wrote:
> 
> > Do we go after people and bash them because
> > of thier ethnicity or religion-no. Do we realize Islam is a 
> > dangerous religion and to practice it devoutly leads it's 
> > followers to isolationism, hatered and demands of it's 
> > follwers to practice acts that could lead to terrorism-yes. 
> 
> Please, Bill. Your lip-service to the idea of 'tolerance' is 
> undermined by your ugly, intolerant, prejudiced, and 
> uninformed characterizations of Islam. Judging all of Islam 
> based on what you know about Islamic fundamentalism is like 
> judging all of the diverse world of Christianity based on 
> Christian fundamentalism. It's blatantly prejudiced and 
> somewhat disgusting. 
> 
> Think about what 'fundamentalism' is from a Christian 
> perspective, and then ask yourself if Islamic fundamentalists 
> really should be held up as a standard of what all of Islam 
> is. Christian fundamentalists come in many varieties, but 
> almost all of them have at least some beliefs that are about 
> as far out of the mainstream (or even as 'sick') as what you 
> ascribe to Islamic fundamentalists. Some think that women 
> should always cover their heads, should be deprived of 
> education, and are obliged to bear their husbands dozens of 
> children. Some believe in polygamy. Some think that all 
> non-Christians must be punished/converted and that we are in 
> a global religious war against the infidels (and, in fact, 
> you seem to come close to this belief). Some think that the 
> earth is only 5,000 years old and that most scientists are 
> demons. Here in the US, many advocate the destruction of the 
> US government, as we so sadly found out in Oklahoma City. 
> Many Christian-based cults take the form of armed militias. 
> Anti-Semitism permeates Christian fundamentalism just like it 
> permeates Islamic fundamentalism. 
> 
> This is not to say that the analogy is totally appropriate: 
> Why do Islamic fundamentalists seem to have more power and 
> influence in the Islamic world than Christian fundamentalists 
> have in the US (although this is arguable)?
> 
> One thing that differentiates the two is that Moslems around 
> the world live, for the most part, in impoverished and 
> oppressive circumstances - and their oppressors are usually 
> supported by western governments like the US. Osama bin Laden 
> has made no secret of his hatred for Saddam Hussein and of 
> King Fahd - these oppressive regimes, to him, are "western 
> creations" and in fact these are his real targets. The 
> Islamic fundamentalist movement is, in many ways, a movement 
> to restore faith, dignity, and honor to the corrupt 
> governments of the Moslem world. Sounds a lot like GW Bush's 
> campaign speeches (I'm not saying Bush is like a terrorist at 
> all, I'm just saying that the desire to bring justice to your 
> government is pretty normal). In most respects they are 
> acting based on politics, not religion. 
> 
> Christian fundamentalists, on the other hand, tend to live in 
> free countries with some degree of economic prosperity. Their 
> goals are also to restore dignity and honor to our societies 
> and governments. But (fortunately for us) western governments 
> already are pretty free of corruption and oppression 
> (especially in comparison to the governments of the Middle 
> East). So they rarely resort to such acts of terror as we see 
> coming from the Middle East.
> 
> One group attacks the World Trade Center because they are 
> fighting (they
> believe) to end the oppression of millions of their people. 
> Another group kills doctors on their way to clinics to end 
> (they believe) abortion. People with strong beleifs often 
> turn to violence regardless of their faith. 
> 
> We live in a world where Islam, a sleeping giant of potential 
> power (and fully 1/4 of the world's population), lives in a 
> kind of second-class world citizenship, and they desperately 
> want to end that situation. Some of them are willing to turn 
> to violence - and your us-versus-them attitude does nothing 
> to help end that violence. The fact that the murderers in 
> question today are Moslem is no excuse for your 
> embarrassingly hateful anti-Islamic rhetoric. I only hope 
> your ill-considered opinions are in the minority - if not, 
> and if Americans really do think that 1/4 of the people in 
> the world have an evil belief system, then I guess we are in 
> for a stupid war that could last a hundred years. Intolerant 
> statements like the ones you've made make me ashamed to be an 
> American and very much afraid for the future of love and 
> peace on Earth. 
> 
> -Cf
> 
> PS: Sorry for the off-topic post, but as long as anyone posts 
> intolerant statements like this, I am morally obliged to 
> respond to show that we're not all so insensitive and prejudiced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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