[alicebot-aiethics] Android Bodies

[Bill Easley]

Robby- thank you so much for the advice- I will go this direction.
Imagine...Honda making human androids- civic, accord, etc.....LOL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robby Garner" <robby@robitron.com>
To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] Android Bodies


>
> Hi Bill,
>
> You might be interested to know that Honda has developed several android
> bodies, none of them intelligent so far as I know, but certainly a step
> in the right direction!
>
> http://www.honda.co.jp/robot/
>
> Patrick Rael has a site devoted to teaching how to make your own:
> http://www.howtoandroid.com/
>
> Chris Willis has a page with more links, dedicated to Android Robots.
> http://www.androidworld.com/
>
> Now, we just have to get one, and set it up to run ALICE! ;-)
>
> I believe that Jon Baer is already thinking about how to make ALICE
> control things, and I'm sure others might be interested to do this as
> well. Mobile AI is not that far-fetched, just very expensive at present.
>
> Keep in mind that the first ALICE controled a robot camera, so the
> legacy is already there!
>
> I know that this isnt a post about the "ethical" nature of anything, but
> since I can never leave this list, I'll just keep posting to it. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robby.
>
> PS - "I am not a number, I am a free man!" -- Patrick McGoohan as The
> Prisoner.
>
>
>
> Bill Easley wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone!!
> > I have a challenge for you - let us abandon all this foolish discussion
and
> > MAKE the artificial body first. Nobody has even conceptually made the
> > blessed thing- the closest thing I have seen to a schematic is on AI in
> > professor Allan Hobby's office- there is a layer by layer x-ray, and
after
> > David eats the spinach they operate on his chest to clean it out. Of
course
> > this is absurd, there is nobody on the planet that has even begun to
start
> > any kind of a body suitable for human habitation or one that would
> > marvelously duplicate our function for an AI. Can somebody please build
> > one?This discussion needs to lead to reality. (please educate me if I am
> > wrong here)"Go ask ALICE I think she'll know".........
> > let he who is without sin cast the first stone
> > Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robby Garner" <robby@robitron.com>
> > To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] Hawking, AI, The Human Element
> >
> > >
> > > To all mankind,
> > >
> > > There are some great minds on this AI Ethics list, and one would be
> > > pleased to have any of them live life to the fullest through the use
of
> > > technology. Of course AI comes to mind first as a tool, but is so
> > > related to robot body parts by our anthropomorphic tendencies, and our
> > > biological representation of "self."
> > >
> > > To Tamara: I'm deeply touched that you'd consider granting me a
stronger
> > > body, presumably to preserve my resources and potential to help
mankind,
> > > or perhaps merely because I write entertaining emails, but either is
> > > okay, and I thank you! <big smile>
> > >
> > > But I am by no means in the league of professor Hawking.  The
important
> > > thing I've come to realize, is that we all have the ability to touch
> > > other human lives and make a difference in them.  If we choose to make
> > > this impact in positive ways, it can influence the other's life in
> > > profound dimensions.
> > >
> > > It can be as simple as a kind word spoken to a cashier, or perhaps
just
> > > listening to someone and showing that you care, these precious moments
> > > can give the other person something that might enable them to achieve
> > > more than they would without this moment.
> > >
> > > Compassion is often limited by the patience of an individual, and our
> > > lives seem so short sometimes, we are often in a hurry to get from
point
> > > A to point B, but in rushing towards a goal, one may lose the
> > > opportunity to take advantage of life.  Each moment has a potential,
and
> > > lasts for the rest of your life if you take the time to remember it.
> > >
> > > The point I'd like to make is that by touching the lives of as many
> > > people as possible, there is a sort of immortality there. Just as
> > > Hawking has touched our lives, and we shall always treasure his
> > > contributions, and perhaps even more, his spirit and charm - the human
> > > element of his being.
> > >
> > > To Brenda:  There may be a lot in our lives that we can attribute to
> > > luck, but the human mind can do incredible things in terms of
motivating
> > > the rest of the body to do its best, and a human's best is almost
> > > miraculous in and of itself.
> > >
> > > Having a positive outlook, and certainly, a determination to continue
> > > are essential for the body to keep rebuilding itself.  The human
> > > skeletal system completely rebuilds itself over a period of about 10
> > > years I am told.  So when there is a problem in the body, the *most*
> > > important medicine is for the person to know that others care about
> > > their well being, and that the body will try to meet their needs.
> > >
> > > I believe that the combined will and determination of many individuals
> > > can influence the outcome of physical events. This may sound strange,
> > > but it is fundamentally true. In the case of an illness, there is data
> > > to suggest that emotional and psychological factors are strong
> > > influences for the patient's body to perform at it's best.
> > >
> > > This may be the true potential of AI: not just to communicate with us
as
> > > individuals, but to help us communicate with each other. Sometimes
> > > distance plays a roll in being able to know how another person feels,
> > > etc.  But it is the emotional content that must be pursued in AI, not
> > > the intellectual, for what better describes human beings than the
> > > emotions that we feel, that encourage us to achieve, to heal our own
> > > bodies?
> > >
> > > We may think of robots as cold metal creatures with no emotions, but I
> > > propose that the most noble AI research possible would be to enable
the
> > > AI to share our emotions, all of them, that they may understand what
> > > being human means. What better vessel for compassion than a machine
> > > which has infinite patience?
> > >
> > > Surely someone will say, what about "hatred, anger, fear?"  Yet just
as
> > > we can't measure light without knowing darkness, can't see good
without
> > > knowing evil, these other emotions ranging from the feedback mechanism
> > > of fear, or pain, to the often destructive emotion of anger, are all
> > > necessary.  A machine with infinite patience can endure all of these
to
> > > promote the inescapable goal of compassion, of performing good deeds,
of
> > > helping mankind.
> > >
> > > To Christian: Let an infinitely patient AI decide who needs what. The
> > > problems of Nazi Germany, and most of the world's culture come from
> > > short-sighted solutions imposed by people in a hurry with a lack of
> > > compassion for others.  Your writings suggest that you are a
> > > compassionate being, and care about all life. I wish all others could
> > > see this as well.
> > >
> > > To Noel: Hawking is right that we must integrate with AI, but we don't
> > > want to become the borg!  The key to our longevity as a species is to
> > > always remember our strength as tool builders. We anthropomorphize
some
> > > of our tools for a good reason - we have been trying to build new
> > > vessels for ourselves, for our souls if you will, since the beginning
of
> > > mankind.
> > >
> > > The goal of AI should not be to replace humanity, but to preserve it
in
> > > a celebration of the human experience.  We (humanity) have had a
> > > wonderful opportunity on this tiny rock called earth to experience
> > > beauty, love, happiness, sadness, sorrow, joy, pain, and ecstasy.
> > >
> > > The biological imperatives of our existence limit our capabilities,
but
> > > they also provide the motivation to preserve our essence. It is not so
> > > important to build machines which "know" as it is to build ones who
> > > "feel."  If we build robot emissaries some day to travel to distant
> > > stars, those robots should be more than "robots." They should be the
> > > best representation of ourselves that we can make. We must paint a
> > > picture, like a cave drawing, of our lives, so that the others - out
> > > there, will know of us.
> > >
> > > It is not enough to send pictures or film, we must provide a working
> > > model that we can build to demonstrate what humanity is about. This
> > > makes me think that the primary goal of our machines should be to
> > > imitate us, then duplicate us, to preserve us, to carry a message to
the
> > > stars that says "human beings exist and are worth taking the time to
> > > think about."
> > >
> > > The essential task at hand is to teach people to show compassion to
one
> > > another, so that we don't destroy ourselves before we can complete AI
> > > enough that it can begin to replicate itself. Then we will have
> > > accomplished something.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Robby.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tamara Thompson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Christian and Brenda, your words are fabulous and give me so much to
> > think
> > > > about.  I agree and disagree with you both, on variations.  But
mostly
> > agree.
> > > >
> > > > Here though is why I think Hawking might be more a candidate for the
> > first
> > > > artificial body than the sweet boy I met at the Burger King:
> > > >
> > > > We all know Hawking to have served as our guide and our teacher for
a
> > long
> > > > time now, despite his disability.  He has an internal compass that
keeps
> > him
> > > > teaching and researching, despite all odds.
> > > >
> > > > That Hawking is an 'old man' just hadn't occurred to me.. I will
have to
> > > > rethink that aspect.  Of course you are right, but his thinking and
> > sharing
> > > > have always seemed so young, have always given us something new to
think
> > > > about, I honestly think of him, from my point of view, as timeless.
> > > >
> > > > And yes, a young person might be a better candidate.  But what if
that
> > young
> > > > person had no ability to process the experience of having that
> > artificial
> > > > body, of reporting it to us?  Of articulately sharing the experience
and
> > > > status with us?    What if he/she had no interest in helping the
culture
> > grow?
> > > >
> > > > The whole thing in my mind, is about cultural education--about
> > pioneering.
> > > > And the  best pioneers we have known have been able to teach us
about
> > the
> > > > situation--to show us what it's like and let us learn from their
> > experiences.
> > > >
> > > > And if as Brenda said, Hawking would the be least likely person to
> > request the
> > > > artificial body, in some ways, doesn't that make him the best
candidate?
> > > > Someone unselfish enough to not fight for the opportunity, but to
let
> > others
> > > > have it?
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure why I'm sitting here as Hawking's advocate.  I admire
him
> > > > greatly, but I also deeply miss the life of Feynman in our world.
And
> > in my
> > > > daily life I see and feel the heroes of average life, the people who
are
> > > > unsung and 'not considered useful'--but who are nonetheless the
one's
> > who make
> > > > this world better for all of us.  I don't know how to answer that
> > question of
> > > > why one person would be considered better than another.  We live in
a
> > culture
> > > > that like all cultures, has it's icons and famous ones, and
generally
> > ignores
> > > > the smaller heroes.
> > > >
> > > > But if you needed a prototype, a tester situation for a new body, I
> > still
> > > > think Hawking would be someone we all know of and trust to tell us
all
> > about
> > > > it, to report it to us intelligently and spiritually.  Then again,
> > <smile>  So
> > > > would Robby.
> > > >
> > > > And this about our culture:  if everytime a great astronomer or
> > physicist
> > > > died, one that had touched the public, there was another behind
him/her
> > to
> > > > fill those shoes, I wouldn't worry so much about losing these
brilliant
> > > > ones.   But look at the numbers, read the reports: almost no
americans
> > are
> > > > entering the hard sciences.  Almost no one is there to replace the
old
> > ones.
> > > > I don't even care anymore if the bright ones are American, they just
> > need to
> > > > be there, and be teaching all of us.  Where are they?
> > > >
> > > > One of you two touched on something that has been worrying me:
remember
> > the
> > > > stories of how the church controlled the biblical stories before
people
> > could
> > > > read?  How the churchmen did the 'interpretation' for the laymen?
It's
> > very
> > > > much like that with science now.  We all have to trust others to
> > understand
> > > > and interpret scientific data and meaning for us.  This is
frustrating.
> > The
> > > > alternatives seem to be that either the public become very educated
in
> > science
> > > > and methods of evaluating data, or that scientists take on the extra
> > burden of
> > > > teaching us all exactly what they are doing and how they are
arriving at
> > their
> > > > conclusions.  I think the latter is a more likely evolution of the
> > situation.
> > > >
> > > > there are a lot of 'black boxes' in astronomy data reduction, that
lead
> > to
> > > > these great 'revelations' of the meaning of data.  I got my degree
in
> > > > Astronomy, so I tend to trust it and those in it.  But these days I
too
> > want
> > > > more proof, and more explanations...because science is not supposed
to
> > be a
> > > > religion, that is above questioning.  That is it's beauty.
> > > >
> > > > So Brenda and Christian, how would you pick the candidate for the
first
> > > > artificial body, and why?
> > > >
> > > > Tamara
> > > >
> > > > "Brenda R. Freedman" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I read about Stephen Hawking's comments when the article first
came
> > out and
> > > > > thought what could prompt someone who has been regarded as "the
most
> > > > > brilliant theoretical physicist since Einstein" to make these
remarks
> > has
> > > > > had me thinking for a while on the topic. He has made many
theoretical
> > > > > predictions that have been proven including the discoveries of
COBE
> > (the
> > > > > Cosmic Background Explorer Satellite) which probed back in time to
> > within
> > > > > 300,000 years of the beginning of the universe. Professor Hawking
is
> > not
> > > > > one to make statements or predictions without evaluation and yet
he
> > > > > believes that the machines can surpass our intelligence and take
over
> > the
> > > > > world.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I had first read Hawking's bio on his site,  when he was
> > diagnosed
> > > > > with a neurone motor disease at a young age but it did not stop
him
> > from
> > > > > going on with his career and when a young boy in the bed next to
him
> > was
> > > > > dying of a terminal illness, he thought things could always be
worse.
> > I
> > > > > have always admired his determination and his way of explaining
the
> > > > > theories of the Universe to ordinary people.
> > > > >
> > > > > I go back and read or look up a reference in his "Brief History of
> > Time"
> > > > > when I read about something that prompts me in my own interest
about
> > the
> > > > > Cosmos. His remarks about machines taking over human intelligence,
in
> > > > > particular a part "artificial brains contribute to human
intelligence
> > > > > rather than oppose it." I think about ALICE and all the work that
has
> > been
> > > > > done towards this endeavor.  His ending paragraph in "A Brief
History
> > of
> > > > > Time" (when he talks about a complete theory of the Universe) says
> > much to
> > > > > where we may be going in the world of AI:
> > > > >
> > > > >         "However, if we do discover a complete theory, it should
bee
> > > > > understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a
> > > > > few     scientists.  Then shall all, philosophers, scientists and
just
> > > > > ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the
> > question,
> > > > > why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to
> > that, it
> > > > > would be the ultimate triumph of human  reason -- for then we
would
> > know
> > > > > the mind of God."
> > > > >
> > > > > As Richard Wallace has stated, ALICE was written for the category
B
> > client.
> > > > > It is something I am reminded about and time again when I see the
joy
> > of
> > > > > people discovering ALICE for the first time who have no other
interest
> > > > > except chatting with this enchanting bot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen Hawking never felt sorry for himself because of his
disability
> > and
> > > > > I would think giving him an artificial body might not be high on
his
> > list
> > > > > (this is just my opinion) and from everything I have read about
his
> > > > > attitude towards his disability. He has led a full life with
children
> > and
> > > > > now a grandchild, so giving him an artificial body at this point
in
> > time
> > > > > perhaps would not give him any more accomplishments to his career.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brenda
> > > > >
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