AW: AW: AW: [aiethics] What are humans made of?

[Christian DroЯmann]

Alicebot AI Ethics Committee - http://www.alicebot.org



Jared wrote:

> Thirdly, I will address the most relevant issue.  HUMANS DO NOT
> AND I REPEAT DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT HAVE INSTINCT.  Not only

and again: give me a scientific proof...

> have you just denied years and years of biological study but you
> have just given an arguement that, again, contradicts itself.

does it?

> You named certain examples such as the urge to reproduce.  That
> is not an instinct.  Urges aren't instincts, actions are.  Just
> because I have the urge to reproduce does not mean I'm going to
> do  it.  The human makes a VOLUNTARY DECISION based on its
> horniness!  If we all acted on urges as if we had an instinct to
> fulfill a lot of people would be in jail right now.  Your other

That does not prove humans do not have instincts, it only proves that =
humans
are capable of suppressing their instincts.

> example, when your life is threatened.  First of all that example
> is experience-wise just out and out wrong.  Have you ever heard

is it?

> of suicide?  Say it with me now:  suicide!  Secondly, you make a

suicide is a voluntary act...you will to die overrides your will to
live...see above: humans can suppress their instincts...

> choice based on your values.  You value your life and so you will
> do most anything to protect it (accept give your life, and
> therein lies your contradiction...!
> and PLEASE don't neatly label it a paradox).  You make a choice.

I don't say this is a paradox...reality proves that in cases of threat
people act AGAINST their values...so the instinct overrides moral in =
this
case.

> If a gun is pointed at my head I may just as well decide that I
> have no hope.  Another one, that we are innately in love with our
> children.  That's been proven wrong.  You'll have to do the

where? by whom? just give me the name of the scientist or the name of =
the
university and I will look for the paper in our archive...

> research yourself!  Oh, I just read over the part where you
> stated that breathing was an instinct with your suffocation
> analogy (or should I say "sad attempt at an arguement" and not
> analogy).  I'm not even going to address that as the average high
> schooler knows that that is an involuntary function of a human
> body and not an instinct.  Fear?  An instinct?  NO, FEAR IS A

I did not say that breathing is an instinct, I said that ensuring =
oxygene
support is one...

> FEELING.  An instinct implies an action.  Your dog has an

fear is a natural mechanism to prevent the body from harm, resulting in =
what
science defined as "feeling"

> instinct to hump your leg Drossman.  He's horny so he doesn't
> have a choice.  However, when I am treating a lady to dinner
> (shut up, I know I'm 16) I do not casually just hump her leg.  I,
> in fact, don't have instincts and so I make a value judgement, or

No, you just suppress your instinct to mate instantly due to moral =
values...
What is it that causes the sudden need in humans to found a family? =
Choice?
I don't think so...
Evolution "designed" the human to be this way because specimens who =
lacked
the instinct to form families and to reproduce were soon extinct...

> choice, not to!  Fear is the same.  I fear heigh!
> ts so I CHOOSE not to climb tall buildings as if I were Spiderman.

the choice is a RESULT of your fear...you don't _reason_ that you should =
not
climb tall buildings, you simply don't do so because you are =
afraid...but
again, you could suppress your fear....
abnormal fear is just a minor brain malfunction...

> "Don't tell me that if you accidentaly touch a glowing hot piece
> of metal you start thinking "Hey, this is REALLY hot...my hand
> might get burned...I'd better let go of this thing..." because if
> you did, your hand would be burnt beyond recognition in the time
> this thought will take you."
>
> Thank you Drossman!  You have just stated my point.  I WOULD let
> go of it because I have made a choice based on the pain I feel,
> and don't tell me you think the human mind is quite as slow as
> you wish it to be in order to better fortify your arguements.
> You may call it an instinct, while well versed doctors choose to
> call it a reflex which implies CHOICE.  NOT INSTINCT.  I don't
> mean to patronize but, have you had any schooling Dross?

1. Reflexes, by definition, do NOT imply choic...they do not even =
involve
the brain!!!
Reflexes are solely handled by neurones in the spinal cord and that IS a
scientifically proven fact you can read in any medical dictionary.

2. about my schooling: 4 years of primary school, 9 years of high =
school,
primary subjects: English, German, Philosophy, Chemistry
secondary subjects: biology, physics, mathematics, Latin, French and =
some
tertiary subjects...(history, geography, etc...)
Finished school in 1998 with an average of 2.8, I did my mandatory =
military
service until fall 1999 and then I started to study Computer sciences, =
but
quit in favour of studying English and Philosophy...and this is what I =
still
do...

I'd say I had _some_ schooling...and if you don't mean to patronize, why
don't you shove comments like that where they belong?

Christian