AW: AW: [aiethics] What are humans made of?

[Christian DroЯmann]

Alicebot AI Ethics Committee - http://www.alicebot.org



Jared M wrote:

> To say that a human mind is the same as a robot is not only to
> state a falsity, but to relinquish all that separates a human's
> morality and a robot's morality.  A human mind is a volitional

I don't think a robot necessarily has something one could call =
"morality"
for reasons you state below...if it is programmed, the values for right =
and
wrong are programmed as well, therefore one cannot talk about robot =
"moral"
here...(at least not in a sense I would define as "moral")

> consciousness, which means it makes choices, and I underline
> choices.  However, a robot's mind, to my knowledge of
> programming, does not make choices.  In fact, its mind works much
> like an animals in that it is programmed to do a certain thing in
> reaction reactant to another.  A human's mind is not programmed.
> A human does not have instinct (no, it doesn't have instinct).

IMHO you are not right here.
The human brain is a bunch of neurones, nothing more - nothing less. =
Just
like an animal's brain...technically they are no different despite the
size...human DNA and animal DNA is identical to a great extent! =
Especially
when you compare the DNA of primates to human DNA! This is simply =
because
the human race is an ape-derivate...
A robot DOES make choices. Whenever you have an "if" or a "do...while"
routine the program analyzes the current situation and then chooses the
appropriate branch and this process is the same in a human brain...you
analyze the current situation (and maybe judge it against previous
experiences, just like a self-learning program does as well, and your
ethical/moral values), you determine what choices you have (if any) and =
then
choose the action that appears to be most appropriate for the =
situation...
the only difference here is that the possible choices are given to the
program while the human brain has to find them out all by itself...
It depends on how one defines "choice"...
Human brains are programmed as well..think of reflexes (they equal
"hardwired" routines in a program)...try not to blink your eyes or duck =
when
something is thrown at you...
Another type of program is the process of socialisation during one's
childhood...people can only behave in a way they have been raised...sure
they can overcome this to some extent, but they can never totally =
overcome
it...
All people are conditioned in some way...this is a kind of program, =
too..
Although the mind might originally be volitional, this freedom is =
limited by
ethical systems, moral, experience, etc...an ethical system for example
erases a couple of originally valid choices for certain =
situations...this
limitation could IMHO be considered "programming" the human mind as =
well...

A human DOES have instict! Reflexes, the desire for reproduction, the =
desire
for motherhood...babies for example look cute because our brain is
preprogrammed to find them cute so that we protect them a natural =
mechanism!
If you throw a newborn baby into a pool with water it will start =
swimming
instinctively, although no one could have ever taught it how to swim...
Whenever your life is seriously threatened you will do ANYTHING to =
protect
yourself and completely ignore ethical values and any moral you might =
have
received during your socialisation process...you will even kill with =
your
bare hands to protect your own life...this is an instinct!
People trying to commit suicide by putting a plastic bag over their head
usually fail because when suffocation sets in they instinctively tear =
the
plastic bag off their head no matter how much they wanted to die
before...Fear is another natural instinct to prevent you from harm...and =
so
is quickly retracting your hand from a hot surface. Don't tell me that =
if
you accidentaly touch a glowing hot piece of metal you start thinking =
"Hey,
this is REALLY hot...my hand might get burned...I'd better let go of =
this
thing..." because if you did, your hand would be burnt beyond =
recognition in
the time this thought will take you.
And there are many more examples...


> This means that our morality stems from the fact that we choose
> (if we do not choose or so much as use reason, in an example such
> as faith in a certain Deity, we have made the choice not to
> choose).  We become hungry but we do not automatically eat.  We

I disagree with you here as well...IMHO our morality comes from
socialisation...and moral values depend ENTIRELY on the society in which =
you
were socialized...

> make a choice based on hunger and our values (I don't know about
> you, but I value a good breakfast in that I won't feel hungry) to
> eat.  We may be hungry all our lives an!
> d still choose not to eat.  In such an instance we will probably
> not have to sustain that behavior for very long as our lives
> won't sustain very long.  A robot (again, to my knowledge) is
> something very different.  It does NOT make a choice.  Rather it
> is programmed to do a certain thing.

You can suppress your feeling of hunger to some extent...but when it =
becomes
dangerous then instinct will take over again...believe me, I know what =
I'm
talking about!
When I joined the Army in Germany (or rather: when I was forced to join =
the
Army, as military service is mandatory here), I of course had to eat the
food the Army prepared for us (if anyone else here was or still is in an
Army then he will surely agree that if there is one thing Armies all =
over
the world have brought to total perfection then it must be how to cook
REALLY BAD food! ;-> ) and I HATED it...I managed to refrain from eating
this sh*t for two full days until I was SO hungry and exhausted from the
drill that I ate absolutely ANYTHING no matter how much I hated it, =
because
it was the only way to get something to eat...

> DO NOT confuse a robot's mind with a human's.  The source of
> morality is choice.  A human is moral or immoral.  A robot is amoral.

IMHO there is no such thing as "immorality" as "moral" and "immoral" =
lies in
the eye of the beholder...
But I agree that a robot is amoral.
But I also think that your arguments are not sufficient to prove that a
human brain is different from an animal's..

Christian