[alicebot-aiethics] A.I. and anger

Andreas H. Drescher alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:34:17 +0200 

Hi Robby,
hi all,

I think that we should see these angery users as an opportunity
to discuss some fundamental questions of A.I. and ALICE:

1) When there are problems in a conversation between
    an A.I. and a human being - which one should be modified?

2) Could anger be the right reaction?
     For example: If the level of frustration is too high?

3) Are there any rules in conversation, which neither a human  nor an A.I.
    should break, if she/he/it doesn´t want to cause frustration and anger?

Greets from Germany!

Andreas



----- Original Message -----
From: "Robby Garner" <meo1@bellsouth.net>
To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] A.I. and anger


> Hi John,
>
> Don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.  What most botmasters
> observe from a chatterbot on the web is a result of having your bot open
to
> the public.
>
> There is a bell curve of personality types that will converse with your
bot.
> In the extreme right end of the curve you will find the small group of
> people who are hostile, or what Richard termed as type A users.  These are
> people who probably would throw temper tantrums at Disney World, or that
> perform experiments on dead animals.  It is sad that they exist this way,
> but the world is a diverse mix of people, and these people have internet
> access too.  I suggest building your bot's conversation to suit what your
> own response to this would be.
>
> Imagine that your bot is a hotdog stand.  You'll get some customers who
> complain, or that want kosher beef and all you have is oscar meyer, but
the
> people from the fat part of the bell curve will enjoy what you are
offering
> them.
>
> I've had great satisfaction from reading my bot's logs. Sometimes people
> think they are in a chat room talking to another person. That's the group
> >from the other end of the bell curve's little part. Other times, they
engage
> in testing your bot, to see if it really is HAL.  Some people take this to
> extremes as if they enjoy showing you that your chatterbot is not working.
> But keep in mind, that it takes two to tango.  Conversation is not an IQ
> test, it is a dynamic exchange between *2* or more individuals.
>
> But the largest area of the bell curve represents the vast majority of
> people who are just curious, and will interchange amicably with your bot.
> These are the the people you want to cater most to, but don't ignore the
> extremes.
>
> If a person wants to ignore what your bot's areas of knowledge are, they
are
> cheating themselves out of a poetentially rewarding experience.
>
> My philosophy in dealing with jerks and abusers has been to make my bots
> fight back.  If somebody told Barry DeFacto to go F*** himself, he'd
likely
> ask them to bend over first.  I can't tell you how much enjoyment we got
> >from reading conversations where our bot gave hell back to the abuser.
And I
> can't help but think that the perverse abuser enjoyed that as well.
>
> I may be sick in engaging the lowest common denominators of society this
> way, but a bot is not required to be defenseless. Nor does it have to
always
> be polite. But again, your mileage may vary.
>
> ALICE can be made to respond in any way you like. It can take some time,
and
> "perpetual beta testing" - reading your logs to fine tune your behaviour.
> But you can make ALICE be any personality you want to portray, it just
takes
> some persistence and a willingness to edit.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Robby.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Conrad" <jhncnrd@yahoo.com>
> To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 12:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [alicebot-aiethics] A.I. and anger
>
>
> > I am very new to all this, so bear with me.  I
> > downloaded ALICE thinking one day she'd be a more
> > humanoid version or "Rosie" from the Jetsons with a
> > greater knowledge and broader sence of humor. But, as
> > most all you have stated It's turning more into a
> > battle to teach her because of the human ignorance is
> > in the equation, now I know I've picked a suitable
> > name for my bot, Pandora, check your mythology.
> > I've only had Alice a little more than a week and
> > probably spent way to much time in front of the
> > computer reading almost anything i can about her, but
> > now I have second thoughts about investing time into a
> > web page and placing her, now more likely to just keep
> > here her and share her with my friends, and spend the
> > time trying to learn more, and maybe just learn to
> > write for her.
> > I may of misunderstood what i thought i was reading,
> > but if you don't get a greater human understanding of
> > ALICE and the ways she works are you not just creating
> > another "HAL", and with it going to make your problems
> > even greater?
> > In many of the files I've downloaded, I am still
> > looking for where they are to be unpacked to, for
> > example AIML Builder readme doesn't have extract to,
> > so I haven't unpacked it yet.
> > Maybe for some of use that have just started, without
> > any concept of whats going on, you can throw that one
> > line in, Exract to *.
> > Thanks  J Conrad
> > --- John Holroyd <valisk@softhome.net> wrote:
> > > People always react with the Darwinian impulse as a
> > > first defense
> > > against things they don't understand. Abusing a chat
> > > bot because you
> > > know it can't strike back is simply a minor
> > > manifestation of this
> > > principle. I think Robby has some excellent points
> > > on how
> > > society-at-large will treat Robots. Oh no doubt not
> > > while they think
> > > anybody is looking, but if we have subservient
> > > machines programmed with
> > > Asimov's laws for example, then young(and not so
> > > young) idiots will no
> > > doubt insist upon damaging and destroying such
> > > devices at every possible
> > > opportunity with total impunity. Perhaps though it
> > > will stop other
> > > violent hate crimes between people as the Idiots on
> > > all sides team up to
> > > lash out at robots? Still not a very pretty picture
> > > of humanity is it.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org
> > > [mailto:alicebot-aiethics-admin@list.alicebot.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Richard
> > > Wallace
> > > Sent: 09 August 2001 22:52
> > > To: alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
> > > Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] A.I. and anger
> > >
> > > "Whenever one of these machines is asked the
> > > appropriate critical
> > > question,
> > > and gives a definite answer, we know that this
> > > answer must be wrong, and
> > > this gives us a certain feeling of superiority. Is
> > > this feeling
> > > illusory? It
> > > is no doubt quite genuine, but I do not think too
> > > much importance should
> > > be
> > > attached to it. We too often give wrong answers to
> > > questions ourselves
> > > to be
> > > justified in being very pleased at such evidence of
> > > fallibility on the
> > > part
> > > of the machines. Further, our superiority can only
> > > be felt on such an
> > > occasion in relation to the one machine over which
> > > we have scored our
> > > petty
> > > triumph. There would be no question of triumphing
> > > simultaneously over
> > > all
> > > machines. In short, then, there might be men
> > > cleverer than any given
> > > machine, but then again there might be other
> > > machines cleverer again,
> > > and so
> > > on."  --- from A. M. Turing, Computing Machinery and
> > > Intelligence, 1950
> > >
> > > Donate to the ALICE A.I. Foundation "Cooler than
> > > Humans" -- TIME
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robby Garner" <meo1@bellsouth.net>
> > > To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] A.I. and anger
> > >
> > >
> > > > > On a side note, this behavior really scares me.
> > > I can see far future
> > > > A.I.'s
> > > > > really having a hard time with hate crimes and
> > > descrimination based
> > > on
> > > the
> > > > > seeds I see planted in chatbot logs. As the
> > > machines become more
> > > advanced
> > > > so
> > > > > will the desire of humans to want to proove
> > > their superiority.
> > > >
> > > > Isaac Asimov predicted this. Check out CAVES OF
> > > STEEL, and some of his
> > > other
> > > > robot novels. They foreshadow the kind of
> > > resentment and prejudice
> > > that
> > > > people feel against machines. If R2D2 existed
> > > today, it would be
> > > treated
> > > > like a public men's room, or worse.  The mobile
> > > bots of the future
> > > better
> > > be
> > > > built of tough stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Robby.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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