[alicebot-aiethics] How should we respond to this?
Ing. Pedro E. Colla
alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:13:38 -0300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C11E71.395209A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sure there are psychological aspects to address but I was more puzzled
by the legal nature itself.
In the case of your disclaimer and driving the issue to the absurd I =
could
claim that since I'm not an english speaker then I didn't got right what =
it
said and still claim to feel bad about my interaction with the bot.
It's like if the lighters in the US worn their safety disclaimer in =
Hebrew,
or the lighter with the English disclaimer to be sold in Israel (which =
actually
happens); in the case of a material good involved in a physical =
transaction
the issue might be more clear.
In this case if I suit you based on our laws our legal system doesn't =
has
juridiction to enforce you on anything, but it might turn you going =
outside
the US a nasty experience for life. Likewise, I couldn't sue you on the =
US
legal system or it won't be easy.
My point is, could an interaction with a bot become a legal case at all?
I'm sure it would be a very puzzling one.
Ing. Pedro E. Colla
Adrogue-BA
Argentina
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robby Garner=20
To: alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org=20
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] How should we respond to this?
Ing. Pedro E. Colla said:
> Beyond a source to think in the legal paradox this consideration has =
a
> practical
> corner; if you put disclaimers..... what legal/ethical system you'll
address
> with them?
It is the psychological which would be addressed. People who tend to =
worry
about a scientist evesdropping on them, might feel better if properly
cautioned. (in theory. in practice, it might just worry more people)
Here's a British Example:
Hi, I'm Mabel, the Hamill Internet chatterbot. I'll hold a =
conversation
with you in plain English, on any subject you choose. All exchanges =
with me
are logged, but you can't be identified as an individual. So feel free =
to
say whatever you like.
Mabel is provided for entertainment purposes only. Neither Hamill =
Internet
nor its officers employees servants or agents shall be in any way =
liable for
any losses costs expenses or damages however caused or for any other =
loss
claim matter circumstance or event whatsoever in connection with or =
arising
out of or attributable to any conversation with Mabel. So there!
This seems a bit paranoid though ;-)
Robby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ing. Pedro E. Colla" <colla@pec.pccp.com.ar>
To: <alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] How should we respond to this?
> In one paragraph of the note the guy seems to be in doubt if it's =
legal or
> not whatever
> the bot did with his daughter's information.
>
> I wonder what is the legal system that applies to such scenario.
>
> It's unlikely at this stage of the technology for any legal issue to =
be of
> the penal
> lawdom, it is likely to be on the civil lawdom. Which has a 70%
probability
> of being
> local or state and 30% of being nation level on most western =
societies.
>
> So, the framework to apply would be the one of the botmaster where =
the
> intelligence
> of the "offending" parts were created? the framework of the =
"daughter"
were
> the "evil
> unlawful" act were perpetrated? or the framework of where the server =
is
> which is the
> physical location where the offense were committed?
>
> In the case of the US it might fall into the umbrella of a federal =
case,
but
> let's assume
> for the moment it's a canadian botmaster, a mexican daughter on a US
> ISP......?
>
> Even if the case in considered based on ethics rather than law it =
could be
> extended
> to a case where an US daughter uses a bot created by a chinese =
botmaster
> being
> run on an hipotetical middle-east based ISP; what ethics system will =
be
> used?
>
> Beyond a source to think in the legal paradox this consideration has =
a
> practical
> corner; if you put disclaimers..... what legal/ethical system you'll
address
> with them?
>
> Ing. Pedro E. Colla
> Adrogue-BA
> Argentina
>
> _______________________________________________
> alicebot-aiethics mailing list
> alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
> http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/alicebot-aiethics
_______________________________________________
alicebot-aiethics mailing list
alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org
http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/alicebot-aiethics
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C11E71.395209A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Sure there are psychological aspects =
to address=20
but I was more puzzled</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>by the legal nature =
itself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>In the case of your disclaimer and =
driving the=20
issue to the absurd I could</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>claim that since I'm not an english =
speaker then=20
I didn't got right what it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>said and still claim to feel bad =
about my=20
interaction with the bot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>It's like if the lighters in the US =
worn their=20
safety disclaimer in Hebrew,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>or the lighter with the English =
disclaimer to be=20
sold in Israel (which actually</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>happens); in the case of a material =
good involved=20
in a physical transaction</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>the issue might be more =
clear.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>In this case if I suit you based on =
our laws our=20
legal system doesn't has</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>juridiction to enforce you on =
anything, but it=20
might turn you going outside</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>the US a nasty experience for life. =
Likewise, I=20
couldn't sue you on the US</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>legal system or it won't be =
easy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>My point is, could an interaction =
with a bot=20
become a legal case at all?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>I'm sure it would be a very puzzling=20
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ing. Pedro E. Colla<BR>Adrogue-BA<BR>Argentina</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:meo1@bellsouth.net" title=3Dmeo1@bellsouth.net>Robby =
Garner</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org"=20
=
title=3Dalicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org>alicebot-aiethics@list.aliceb=
ot.org</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 06, 2001 =
11:42=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[alicebot-aiethics] How=20
should we respond to this?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ing. Pedro E. Colla said:<BR>> Beyond a source to =
think in=20
the legal paradox this consideration has a<BR>> practical<BR>> =
corner;=20
if you put disclaimers..... what legal/ethical system=20
you'll<BR>address<BR>> with them?<BR><BR>It is the psychological =
which=20
would be addressed. People who tend to worry<BR>about a scientist =
evesdropping=20
on them, might feel better if properly<BR>cautioned. (in theory. in =
practice,=20
it might just worry more people)<BR><BR>Here's a British=20
Example:<BR><BR> Hi, I'm Mabel, the Hamill Internet chatterbot. =
I'll=20
hold a conversation<BR>with you in plain English, on any subject you =
choose.=20
All exchanges with me<BR>are logged, but you can't be identified as an =
individual. So feel free to<BR>say whatever you like.<BR><BR>Mabel is =
provided=20
for entertainment purposes only. Neither Hamill Internet<BR>nor its =
officers=20
employees servants or agents shall be in any way liable for<BR>any =
losses=20
costs expenses or damages however caused or for any other =
loss<BR>claim matter=20
circumstance or event whatsoever in connection with or arising<BR>out =
of or=20
attributable to any conversation with Mabel. So there!<BR><BR>This =
seems a bit=20
paranoid though ;-)<BR><BR>Robby<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message =
-----<BR>From: "Ing. Pedro E. Colla" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:colla@pec.pccp.com.ar">colla@pec.pccp.com.ar</A>><BR>To=
:=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-aiethics@lis=
t.alicebot.org</A>><BR>Sent:=20
Monday, August 06, 2001 10:20 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [alicebot-aiethics] =
How=20
should we respond to this?<BR><BR><BR>> In one paragraph of the =
note the=20
guy seems to be in doubt if it's legal or<BR>> not whatever<BR>> =
the bot=20
did with his daughter's information.<BR>><BR>> I wonder what is =
the=20
legal system that applies to such scenario.<BR>><BR>> It's =
unlikely at=20
this stage of the technology for any legal issue to be of<BR>> the=20
penal<BR>> lawdom, it is likely to be on the civil lawdom. Which =
has a=20
70%<BR>probability<BR>> of being<BR>> local or state and 30% of =
being=20
nation level on most western societies.<BR>><BR>> So, the =
framework to=20
apply would be the one of the botmaster where the<BR>> =
intelligence<BR>>=20
of the "offending" parts were created? the framework of the=20
"daughter"<BR>were<BR>> the "evil<BR>> unlawful" act were =
perpetrated?=20
or the framework of where the server is<BR>> which is the<BR>> =
physical=20
location where the offense were committed?<BR>><BR>> In the case =
of the=20
US it might fall into the umbrella of a federal case,<BR>but<BR>> =
let's=20
assume<BR>> for the moment it's a canadian botmaster, a mexican =
daughter on=20
a US<BR>> ISP......?<BR>><BR>> Even if the case in considered =
based=20
on ethics rather than law it could be<BR>> extended<BR>> to a =
case where=20
an US daughter uses a bot created by a chinese botmaster<BR>> =
being<BR>>=20
run on an hipotetical middle-east based ISP; what ethics system will=20
be<BR>> used?<BR>><BR>> Beyond a source to think in the legal =
paradox=20
this consideration has a<BR>> practical<BR>> corner; if you put=20
disclaimers..... what legal/ethical system you'll<BR>address<BR>> =
with=20
them?<BR>><BR>> Ing. Pedro E. Colla<BR>> Adrogue-BA<BR>>=20
Argentina<BR>><BR>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> =
alicebot-aiethics=20
mailing list<BR>> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-aiethics@lis=
t.alicebot.org</A><BR>>=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/alicebot-aiethics">=
http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/alicebot-aiethics</A><BR><B=
R><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>alicebot-aiethic=
s=20
mailing list<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:alicebot-aiethics@list.alicebot.org">alicebot-aiethics@lis=
t.alicebot.org</A><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/alicebot-aiethics">=
http://list.alicebot.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/alicebot-aiethics</A><BR></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C11E71.395209A0--