[aiethics] AW: law systems (was: Ethics list)

[Christian Dro?mann]

> Well, I guess I've solved it.

congrats ;->

> You're right Christian, the American court system is a little
> silly. However
> the basis for our system is one of nondiscrimination. All cases, no =
matter
> how stupid have the right to be heard and tried by a juror of one's =
peers.
> The reason that a global audience may think the system is more
> foolish then
> it is is because the Mcdonald's coffee type cases get a lot of =
attention.

I partially agree with that...but what makes this system appear foolish =
to
me is the fact that someone can actually WIN such a lawsuit...

> Our national press picks up on these types of cases because of the old
> adage, "Dogs bites man is common, man bites dog is news." The

I suppose the press works like that just anywhere in the world...

> events of such
> cases are so far removed from the general day to dealings of our court
> system that they are deemed news worthy. From an outsider, or foreign
> perspective, I can easily see how hearing about law suits like the
> aforementioned could taint one's opinion. I for one know nothing about =
the
> German court system, but I'd be very interested in learning.

I'm not a lawyer, but I know a little bit about our law system from my =
time
in school...
Just like America we also have the policy that if the court is in doubt, =
you
are considered innocent...
But here it depends on the court and the individual case whether the =
court
has to prove you guilty or you have to prove yourself innocent...
As you probably know, death penalty in times of peace has been abolished =
in
Germany quite a while ago.
I don't know about the US, but here certain minor crimes and offenses =
can
"expire"...if no one drags you to court then after a certain time, =
depending
on the crime, you can not be held responsible for it anymore...
We also normally have no jury in courts, the decision lies solely in the
judge's hands...there is something called a "Schoeffengericht" in which =
two
or three other people (usually people from respected positions, such as
Teachers, policemen, etc), the "Schoeffen" assist the judge and have the
same power to speak a sentence, but this is not very common and only =
valid
for minor crimes, such as hit-and-run accidents, burglary, etc...
But it's also a fact that "common sense" has a high value in German
courts...if I tried to sue McDonalds for burning my mouth with their =
coffee
in Germany all the judge would have to say about it is probably "As an =
adult
you should know that the process of making coffee involves boiling water =
and
thus it is assumable that the result is quite hot as well...so it's all =
your
fault!"

When I bought a lighter in Miami I almost died laughing when I saw the
sticker on it that said things like "Ignite away from face and =
clothing!"
and "Make sure flame is out after use", but I didn't laugh anymore when
someone told me that if they didn't put that sticker on every lighter =
then
someone who ist dumb enough to burn his beard away with the lighter =
could
take the lighter's manufacturer to court...

Please correct me If I am mistaken, but I also learnt from the O.J. =
Simpson
case that once a court found you not guilty this judgement is
definitive...this is not the case in Germany. Once more evidence is
discovered then the case can be revised and the police might eventually
receive the order to track you down and arrest you in order to put you =
in
court again...
Let's say you were arrested for murder, but found not guilty....then
suddenly after 15 years somebody discovers the remains of your ex-wife
somewhere in the woods along with the keyring your lost when you buried =
her,
then you're in trouble again...

An example for this is the infamous "Mutter Weimar" case from the 80s, =
where
a woman was considered the murderer of her two daughters...so far the =
case
has been revised four times, she received a life sentence in the first
trial, she was judged not guilty in the second and so forth...AFAIK at =
the
present time she is free again...

> Technology, like what we're all trying to nurture systems like ALICE =
into,
> is going to be a hot bed of political and philosophical debate in
> the years
> to come. Mainly because this technology challenges the fundamentals of =
how
> human intellect is thought of. Will we surrender our humanity by =
creating
> entities in our own image? Questions like this scare people. As
> thinkers and

Yes, many people don't like the idea that the human mind might be so =
simple
that it can easily be re-created in a computer...actually, I don't have =
such
a high opinion of the human race...I believe that the mind is nothing =
but
the sum of biological, physical and chemical processes...it's just a =
bunch
of neurones communicating by electrical impulse...I', convinced that one =
day
we WILL be able to copy the brain 1:1...
I think people are afraid of being "nothing special" and not "the crown =
of
evolution" anymore, although we technically are just a by-product of
ape-development...

> scientists we have confidence in the longevity of humanity, we don't =
share

Oh, I must admit I have more confidence in human stupidity than in human
longevity...take a look around...do you really think that a race that is
still more advanced in technology to kill than in technology to heal has =
a
high chance of survival? I consider wars and all that comes with them as
"applied darwinism"...;->
But that's just my 2 cents about this...

> the same fears as those who might not understand the nobility of
> our goals.
> That is why we must first and foremost educate. Only through a public
> awareness can we as vanguards of this technology defend ourselves and =
our
> ideas against exploitations like merritless law suits.

I think this is why we as the AI Ethics Committee carry a heavy =
burden...the
other committees just have to convince people that our bot works...we =
have
to show, that it will not harm anyone!

Christian




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